Tuesday, April 23, 2013

Ground Scale / Time Scale for various Vietnam games

A while back, I was discussing that I was looking for rules to do battalion size actions (each stand is a platoon) for the Falklands and was toying with the idea for Vietnam as well.  So, I started looking at various modern rules sets to do battalion actions.  I think that I will finally settle for either Cold War Commander or Tank Wreck for battalion actions.  The deciding factors is that I want something that is not complex for rules and fast moving.  I just do have the time or will be able to play the rules enough to keep the rules well remembered and not have to refer back to the rules regularly during a game.

But while looking at the different rules, I started to look at ground & time scale for figuring out when I start laying out maps and noticed some interesting things that might be of interest to others.  So below is a break down of various modern or Vietnam rules for general information about scales.  I know that there more out there (like Force on Force) but these are the only ones that I really looked into or own.

I laid out the following information, if known, in this order for each rule set: Name of system and company / ideal level of command for a player / ground scale by ratio / time scale per turn / movement speed for infantry in perfect conditions / range for small arms fire / other notes

Buckle For Your Dust, Wargaming.co / Squad - Platoon / 1:300 / 1 minute / 3.7 km/h (2.3 mph) / 229m / There are two other rules sets that are included in this book, there information follows: One Brain Cell Vietnam / Platoon - Company / 1:500 / 2 minutes / 3 km/h (1.9 mph) / 300m / Mouth of the Dragon / Company - Battalion / 1:1000 / 2 minutes / 3 km/h (1.9 mph) / 300m

Chain of Command, Too Fat Lardies / Squad - Platoon / 1:120 / I have no additional information as it has not yet been released.  It is a new set of WWII rules, but should be adaptable to Cold War period and I plan to buy it when it is released

Charlie Company, RAFM / Squad-Platoon / 1:72 / I have since misplaced this rules set when I started boxing up my bedroom to be painted, but will update this when I find it back

Charlie Don't Surf, Too Fat Lardies / Platoon - Company / 1:300 / Variable time scale / max of 450' per turn / 300m+

Cold War Commander, Specialist Military Publishing (Squad level) / Company / 1:1000 / 30 minutes / 0.2 km/h+ (0.1 mph+) / 300m / (Platoon level) / Battalion / 1:2000 / 30 minutes / 0.4 km/h+ (0.2 mph+) / 600m / The movement rates is given for each successful order given to the infantry stand, so if a stand successful gets four command orders on one turn and they moved for four orders, then times their movement rate by four for figuring out their speed.  Personally, I think that there is a mistake on the time scale.  Two scales are given in the game system

Combined Arms, GDW (Regular scale) / Battalion / 1:1800 / 15 minutes / 2.9 km/h (1.8 mph) / 457m / (Alternative scale) / Battalion / 1:4500 / 15 minutes / 2.9 km/h (1.8 mph) / 450m / Out of print.  Two scales are given in the game system

Fist Full of TOWs 3, Ty Beard / 1:3936 / 12 minutes / 2 km/h (1.2 mph) / 400m / I don't have these rules, but I have the free introductory rules. 

From the Delta to the DMZ, Gomi Designs / No real scales given

Mekong...Vietnam: Riverine Warfare in Vietnam, GHQ / Platoon - Company / 1:984 / 1 minute / 3 km/h (1.9 mph) / 300m

Men of Company B, Peter Pig / Company / No  scales are really given, built into a square grid system. 

Micro Armour (R) The Game - Modern, GHQ / Battalion / 1:3600 / 3 minutes / 7.3 km/h (4.5 mph) / 457m / They have a Vietnam supplement which also provides an alternative scale for some scenarios.  There is also a free introductory version available that is suppose to rules lite

Tacspiel, Wargaming.co / Company - Brigade / 1:50,000 / 15 minutes or less / 4 km/h (2.5 mph) / 500m / Official US Army rules for Low Intensity Warfare from the Vietnam era using grid maps for analyzing tactics. Republished by Wargaming.co with additional notes

Tank Wreck, Vandering Publications (Regular scale) / Battalion - Brigade / 1:1968 / 5 minutes / 1.8 km/h (1.1 mph) / 500m / (Alternative scale) / Battalion - Brigade / 1:5000 / 5 minutes / 3 km/h (1.9 mph) / 500m / Manufacturer sells only through eBay. Two scales are given in the game system

Tour of Duty, Battlefront / Company / Logarithmic - no real scales to go by / Requires the Flames of War WWII main rules to play




Pete. said...

An interesting overview... got me thinking what are the practical basing conventions for each system? I ask because the pics you have put up are of single based figures, will you rebase or just add to temporary bases?



Sapper Joe said...

Hello, Pete

My 20mm's that you probably referring to are for individual skirmishing up to a company size battle. The BN size battles will be 10mm's mounted in groups on bases. But I have been flirting with the idea of doing Vietnam in 3mm, especially with Shapeway's 1/600 Riverine stuff.

But I have been thinking of using of some of Litko's horde trays (http://www.litko.net/categories/Movement-Trays/Horde-Trays/) for faster moving in games. I have already bought some, but have not tried them yet. As most of my individual figures are mounted on pennies, I can put a Litko 20mm flex steel base on them and put a magnetic base in the spot of horde base to give it some height and hold them in the tray.

What is nice about knowing the ground scale for a game system is then you can use the ratio to change the game measurements to fit the bases.